IA Forward
The Independent Insurance Agency Playbook: The insurance business is all about playing an infinite game. Shane, Tonya, and Mike discuss how to play the long-term game of being a successful agent and creating a culture of freedom for yourself.
Learn more at www.integrapartnernetwork.com
IA Forward
Base Hits Build Better Agencies
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Everyone loves the home run. The viral moment. The massive account win. The big splash that makes headlines. But great agencies aren’t built on home runs. They’re built on base hits.
In this episode, Shane and Tonya are joined by University of Kansas senior softball player Emma Tatum talks about the surprising parallels between competitive athletics and building a successful independent insurance agency.
They explore why consistency, grit, and doing the small things well often matter more than chasing the big win. If you’re tired of chasing the "next big thing" and want to build something sustainable, this episode will change the way you think about growth.
Learn more at IntegraPartnerNetwork.com.
This is IA Forward, your playbook for success as an independent insurance agent. Now, here to help you knock it out of the ballpark are your hosts, Shane Tatum, Tanya Leed, Mike Basil, and Robbie Javour. Welcome to IA Forward.
SPEAKER_02We are so excited to have the fabulous Miss Emma Tatum here with us today. She is uh she's a senior at the University of Kansas, fabulous softball player, and is spending her final semester as an intern with us at the Integra Partner Network. Hi, Emma. Hi, happy to be here. Yes, we're so excited to have you. And in case you can't tell from Shane's smile, not only is Emma our intern, she is uh she's blessed to have Shane as her dad. How's that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, she's very, very blessed to have me as a dad constantly in her ear. And if you can't if you can't tell by looking at us, you uh we we pretty much have to claim each other. Uh we do a lot of a lot of similar facial characteristics, I would say.
SPEAKER_01Look a lot alike, so just a little bit.
SPEAKER_02So since Emma is a softball player, we our topic today is focusing on the base hit instead of the home run. And if you're at bat, you are still in the game. Now, while this resonates for her as a softball player, it really resonates with us in the independent agency world.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, it's it's uh it's so similar. Like and it's it actually fits us really well from the standpoint and really the way that I have described a lot of things through the years around hitting home runs is you know, not necessarily you chasing home runs. I think about this when I think about conversations with agents who chase big commercial accounts because they're huge premium, but they have no background, they are not set up, they're not, you know, it's kind of like they don't have the right swing, right? They got to work on their swing first, they got to work on their plate approach first, they gotta work on all these little things before they can hit the home run. And really, you don't really try to hit home runs, right? If you if you're trying to hit home runs, you're gonna strike out a lot.
SPEAKER_02But I mean, everybody wants the home run, right? So why is it that we don't want to be disciplined when we're at bat? Like, why do we glamorize the viral post or the or the massive account win? But when we know that championships are really built on base hits, right?
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna let Emma interject an at bat or a plate approach, like, you know, what what what is what are things that you think about? What what's the approach when you're at your level, right? Big 12, power four pitchers. Um power four pitchers are different, right? Yeah. Why don't you kind of why don't you kind of take us through the level of play and just try to describe best you can at what that looks like for for for a hitter?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, I think I think that the media, like they're gonna film the big hits. Like you're you're gonna get posted when you hit the double or the home run, or um, I guess for us, like when we get an RBI, like it's constantly like a post on social media, but I think as a hitter, like facing some of the best pitching in college softball, when we get into Big 12s, it's like if I get a base hit through the infield, like I'm celebrating the smallest things. And I think like as a team, like that's what you celebrate. And it might not, you might not know that as the crowd, as the fans on social media, because that might not be getting posted all the time. That might not be kind of the thing that's making everyone wants, everyone wants the home run, everyone wants the double. But like, what about the two for three game that you had where you had like two little knocks up the up the middle or through the gap? I mean, our hitting coach talks a lot about like just put the ball in play and something's gonna happen. Um, he's like, hey, big time hits are gonna come. They're gonna come if you keep swinging. But some of one of the biggest times that my hitting coach has been like the most happy is when we have runners on second and third, and someone hits a grumble and it doesn't even get through the infield, but we made some chaos happen. Um, and I feel like that stuff that's not talked about a lot, but those are some of the most fun at bats that I've had, not even like the home runs, like when you kind of just cause some chaos on the bases.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02That reminds me, Emma, of one of Shane's favorite words. And I don't know why this has never been his word of the year, because it should be. That's consistency. So as when you're consistent, when you create consistent at batts, that's the same thing in the agency world as you know, consistent content on social media, consistent messaging from your team, consistent timing on your follow-ups. Yeah, those are business-based hits, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. We have a really good candidate for word of the year in 2027. How about that? That's a that's a nice nice little that's a good word.
SPEAKER_01You do use that a lot, Dad.
SPEAKER_03I do use that a lot, and that is that's a good point. I really haven't thought about that. And maybe stability kind of goes along with stability or being stable, but consistency, I mean, I not to steal a little bit of her thunder, but I'm pretty I think consistency was one of Emma's biggest goals for her senior year. Like being being more consistent, right? Like she had some really, really crazy impactful games last year. Uh, you know, five RBI game against Baylor and uh home run game, you know, home runs, doubles, like just some big things. But then, you know, she got frustrated. What what would I would say I'm you know, probably the most frustration for her is that you know, 0 for 3, where she hit the ball, you know, but maybe she just didn't get that result, right? And and that's very relatable, very relatable to to our business, to the insurance industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I can remember when I was in college decades ago, and that just made me sound like an old person. I remember back when I was in college, but um being a a diamond girl at at Southern Mess, um the coaches called them ego swings. And there was nothing that would make a coach matter than an ego swing. And it uh Emma, do y'all have that same kind of theory?
SPEAKER_01We don't say ego swing, but like when you say that, I know what you're talking about. Like there are some times where a girl gets up there and I mean just take the biggest hack. And it's like, hey, we need like a base hit. Like we're and I mean I've done that before. Like, I think sometimes it's fun to be the hero, it's fun to like be in the bottom of the seventh or the sixth, and we need one run to tie the game up or to get ahead. And it's like, okay, I'm gonna get up here and I'm gonna swing like the biggest swing as hard as I can and just hope it goes somewhere. And I think there are times where that's okay, like being a pinch hitter coming in, like your job is genuinely just to swing the bat. And like coming in as a pinch hitter sometimes, I've done that. Like, you do have to come up there and just kind of have an ego swing, just swing hard. But when you're a starter in the lineup, like your swing's got to stay the same. It just has to stay consistent and swing at good pitches and good things will happen. But yeah, having an ego swing can I feel like when I hear that, I kind of think selfishness, like it's just you're trying to be the hero, you're trying to make it all about you, instead of asking yourself what you can do best for your team right now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, saying I think sometimes agents want uh to have that ego swing in in their agency. Um very rarely have I ever seen that be really successful.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it of course everybody wants to have that swing. Everybody wants to hit that home run. I I think you know, we talk a lot about how athletes make great salespeople, make great independent agency prospects and and and sales agents prospects. There's evidence throughout you know history that that athletes are really good, you know, candidates for sales positions in in various industries. And I think there's a little bit of arrogance that has to go with that, right? Like in a good way. I would let's just if there's such a thing, let's call it good arrogance, right? Like I think good arrogance, the true definition is confidence or confidence, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like Emma and I talked to say confidence, yeah.
SPEAKER_03We could just say confidence, right? Um thank you, Emma.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Well, I didn't know if that's what he was getting at, and I was like, are you just talking about being confident?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just be confident. And and even more, and Emma's heard me say this a lot this year, is intrinsic confidence, like just internalize that confidence. And you know, that that is something that we don't want to squash. We don't want to squash the the confidence, right? But we want to manage the ego side of that and and and where it becomes toxic arrogance, right? Where it's like so selfish that you nobody wants you on your team. Like you, you know, there's agencies out there that have these um these sales producers. Uh, and and my dad used to talk about you know these uh really, really successful loan officers. There, there was this one successful loan officer at at the bank that he ran when I was growing up, and we would have these little business discussions, not any different than the way Emma and I have had these little discussions from time to time, and it would be like I'm constantly going around putting out fires behind this guy. Like he was great at the top line, the the generating the opportunity, but the little fires become exhausting, right? And and that's what you get from the ego swing, right? If you're you get that one big everything aligned, and they hit just a monster bomb in the bottom of the seventh to walk it off. And I played with those guys, I played with those people, and they got that one social media post that went viral, and it was like, you know, but that is a high. Emma's heard even keel a lot, Tanya. Sorry, right? Emma's Emma's heard that throughout her life a lot. That high has a huge drop to the low.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And that player, no different than our in our agencies, um, that player has a hard time staying in the lineup because of consistency or lack of consistency.
SPEAKER_02So, what is a base hit in insurance? I mean, for me, that is increasing your uh policy for customer ratio, improving your retention, maybe cleaning up your CRM, which sounds like great fun, right? But making you um more time efficient, um maybe cross-selling. I mean, what what Shane, what are base hits in our business?
SPEAKER_03One, I think, is not getting bored is a base hit. Like for personal lines agents, let's let's set the tone here for for personal insurance agents, auto home, toys, life and some life insurance, building a book of business, not getting bored with that, uh, and going too quickly into chasing something bigger and better. Like, don't get bored with the base hit. I think that is a base hit, right? Um because what happens that I see in agencies is we people get bored or they play the comparison game, and you know, we all know comparison's the thief of joy, and they're not able to stay focused on just the thing that's getting them there, that's making them successful financially, that's paying the bills, that's creating the lifestyle, the earnings, and then they run over here and they start chasing home runs, big, big commercial accounts before they're ready. Nothing against that, right? Hey, there's nothing against being two for two with two singles and an RBI and you know sitting in a 3-1 count, right, with runners on second and third and coming out of your shoes on a swing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like, nothing wrong with that. Because you're kind of playing with house money at that point. You're you're in the black. Like, you know, the only difference there is if those runners on second and third are game tying or game winning runs, then coming out of your shoes becomes a selfish play, right? And so the the agency equivalency is hey, you're right there and you're a you're profitable and you're making good money, and you're about to be able to invest in growing your business to a whole nother level, and you run off on a tangent and start chasing stuff that uh has nothing to do with your core business, and you look up in six months and your business is starting to go backwards, right? So to me, that's that's a big part of what a single looks like.
SPEAKER_02Emma, what do you think is a good at bat? Like, tell me your definition of that.
SPEAKER_01Um, I mean, I think it needs to be competitive. So for me, like I think it kind of depends on like who you are, but something that like we are hitting coach that we've had the last two years has done a really good job of emphasizing is the first or second pitch in an at-bat is probably gonna be the best pitch you're gonna get, especially when we're facing Big 12 pitchers. Like you might not get a good hitter's pitch because they're that good. So you have to learn how to hit their pitch. Um, and most likely a really good pitcher, the first or second pitch is the best pitch you're gonna get in an at-bat. So if you take a ball, first pitch strike, well, you got to battle the rest of the at bat because that's probably gonna be the best pitch that you're gonna get. Um, so I think for me, I'm best when I'm aggressive and I'm swinging at the first strike that I see. Um, most of my hits, I say that, but sometimes my best hits have been when I have two strikes, which is really funny. Um, but I think I'm my best hitter when I'm aggressive and I'm or I'm swinging at strikes early in the count. Um, but let's say, you know, you do get two strikes on you, like battling and not having the ego swing, um, just trying to put the ball in play, having a competitive at bat, taking taking balls, knowing that that's not your pitch to hit, um, and swinging at the right pitches. So that would be that'd be a really good at bat for me. And then just putting the ball in play somewhere hard.
SPEAKER_03Hey, what's maybe throw in there what what is y'all's definition of a quality at bat?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Maybe elaborate on that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So we have like a hitting chart that we call it quabs.
SPEAKER_03Quabs, there you go. Okay, quabs.
SPEAKER_01Um and sometimes like if you're not in the realm of softball baseball, like you might not like you might only think a quality at bat is a base hit, but I mean a quality at bat actually could be a strikeout if you see eight or more pitches. So if you're fouling balls off or you're taking pitches, even if it ends in a strikeout, we actually still consider that a quality at bat because you saw eight or more pitches. Um, another quality at bat would be if there's runners, runner on second, first and second, and you move them over. And now we have either a runner at third or runner at second and third with one out. So it has to be less than two outs. Um, and then RBI, quab, a walk is a quab, and then obviously like a base hit. Um, but yeah, you can actually, there's actually a lot of ways that you can have a quality at bat. Um and what's funny enough is most of the time quality at bats are when you're not being selfish and you're doing stuff for your team.
SPEAKER_02So Shane, tell me, tell me your opinion of what is the insurance equivalent to those things. So not those things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I I have this immediate example of a quality at bat. We have an account manager here in in East Texas um who has on more than one occasion, like you would make the you know, on the surface, it sounds like, oh my gosh, they're failing. But which sometimes that's what a quality at bat looks like, right? A strikeout could be a quality at bat. But we have uh I have just recent examples in the last several months of just due to pricing issues or due to some situation with an account. Uh, we have a couple of different account managers who have lost business, okay, lost an account because we just couldn't compete for whatever reason, but got a referral from that same customer, right? And so, you know, that is a very, very good example of what I would call a quality at bat because they're doing their job really, really well. They're they're taking care of the client, their their personal experience, right? Like, not their customer experience, sorry, their customer experience is through the roof. Like, so customer experience and quality at bats feel similar to me. And you can lose business and gain business on an exponential basis at the same time if you are providing incredible customer experience. And I think that is something that the most successful agents understand. Uh, they they understand that just because they didn't make a sale, just because they didn't gain a client or keep a client doesn't mean they're not gonna get five more clients from a referral because of the customer experience that they achieved.
SPEAKER_02Emma, you're a senior this year, which I I can't even believe that. Yeah, I can't either out there. I can't either. Well, how has your perspective on success changed from being a freshman to being a senior? That's a really good question.
SPEAKER_01Um, I think I mean it kind of just goes down to what we've kind of been talking. I think in softball terms, like success to me does look like consistency. Like I would rather I would rather have no home runs on the year and just have, you know, a great, I guess you would say batting averages really matter. I mean, just like great at bats, quality at bats, consistently having RBIs for my team, then all of these home runs where like I get all of the glory. Like I I think I would rather be a consistent hitter in that way of just like base hits after base hits than all of these, like, all right, we need we need a grand slam right here. We need a home run. Like that's awesome. I think that's that's really fun. I've had those moments and they're great. But yeah, I think from freshman year to now, it's like I'd rather just get a base hit up the middle in the bottom of the seventh and score the score the winning run or score the go-ahead run. Like that's that's a lot more fun and kind of takes away the me, me, me um mindset. And I think as coming in as a freshman, like you, you kind of crave that a little bit because you I mean you're there, you're at your dream school, you're playing, um, and you you want a little bit of the success. Like you want your name to kind of be mentioned a lot. Um, but yeah, I think I've learned that this is such a softball and baseball is such a team sport where success just looks like doing anything you can to help your team out. And you actually have a lot more fun when you stop thinking about yourself and do stuff for your team. So that's what success looks like to me is what can I do for my team and being able to do that in whatever role it looks like.
SPEAKER_02So let's flip this coin and discuss that slumps happen, right? Yeah. Yeah. And they're rough, right? I mean, not I mean, this happens on the ball field, this happens in business, this happens in life. Yeah. Right. So tell me what that looks like for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean we play, I mean, we call our sport a game of failure. Like you are three for 10 and you're an all-American, which is crazy. Um, I think that just shows like how hard this game is. Um, our coaches say a lot, like, you're gonna make mistakes. Mistakes are gonna happen because this is a game of failure. And um, we talk a lot about the difference in physical mistake versus mental mistakes. I think you can control a lot of your all of your mental mistakes. That's my opinion. I think you can, if you have a mental mistake, that's something that you can control. Um, I think sometimes slumps, I think they start physically, but I think how you deal with it in your head is how you're gonna come out of it. Um, I mean, I think like if you're gonna slump, telling yourself you're in a slump, one isn't really gonna do much because now you're just kind of you're just getting deeper into the whole, like, oh dang, I'm in a slump. Well, I mean, that's not really gonna do anything. Um, so I think you one have to have people to talk out, talk about it with. Um, I mean, I had one of my best friend, my roommate, we play the same position. We were able to kind of talk to each other, like, I don't know why, but I'm just like not feeling it right now. And I haven't been feeling it the last couple of games. Um, you have to be able to talk about it, get it off your chest, bring it to the light, as we would call it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think you just have to keep going. Like, what are you gonna do? Are you gonna lay down and stop? Like, what's you're gonna regret doing that eventually? Like, you just have to keep going when you're in a slump. Um, because a breakthrough is gonna happen. Like, you're not gonna be feeling this way mentally forever. Um, it's it might last like a couple days or a week or two, but it feels like forever. It's not gonna last forever. Um, and I think you just gotta keep going. Like, you can't stop. You can't lay down, you can't say, well, this is it. I'm not gonna get out of this. Um, then you're really not gonna get out of it. So yeah, you just gotta keep going, keep grinding. You gotta keep going to the cages, keep going to the field, work at it, do the do the things you don't want to do. That's how you get out of it. And we we like to tell each other a lot on the field. Um, we'll just kind of look at each other and be like, hey, you can do hard things, you can do it. So we tell each other that a lot, and that helps get out of the slump.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's uh so many parallels to our business.
SPEAKER_01Um, you know, we dog about that does come from my father. So I I feel like I should say that first. I'm saying all of this, and this comes from lots of voice memos, lots of phone calls, and lots of text messages between me and dad. So um just uh say that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the uh, you know, I and and and you have to think about it in context, but Emma and I talk a lot about or have always reminisce about dropping her off her freshman year and um you know, just basically saying, hey, this is gonna be the hardest thing you've ever done. And um I think she would agree it's that's true, right? Now, obviously, there are things in life that are harder than playing college softball. Like there are there are personal tragedies and there are things we have to keep that in perspective. But when it comes to like when you when you are going into a Power Four program in any sport, you have to realize every single person coming into that program with you, either that is already there as an upperclassman or that's coming in with you, they were all all state athletes in in sports. Sometimes they were all state athletes in high school in multiple sports, right? These are the best of the best. Uh, these are the elites. Um I know that a handful of programs in baseball and a handful of programs in softball get the viral social media. You know, the OU had the four-year four-peat run at the national championships. I mean, you know, we had these in football with uh who um Tanya refers to as Saint Nick's teams at Alabama, uh Nick Saban, who we all like to refer to as a sort of thing.
SPEAKER_01I like that, Tanya.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. She likes to refer to him as Saint Nick. And uh yeah, he probably probably good. That's a that's a pretty good uh good title. Um But there even at you know the mid-pack, Big 12, in any level of Division I, these players are elite, right? Like, and it's the hardest thing. And we talked about that when when when we're leaving her in Lawrence, Kansas, and driving 12 hours back to Texas, it's like this is the hardest thing you're ever going to do. Just know that going in. It's and it's a sport of failure. And the parallel, man, the parallel to our business and thinking about the history of Integra Partner Network, um, thinking about my personal insurance career, like there has been, I call them trip and falls or skinning our knees. Um, I use those those phrases. Those are failures. Like we are only successful today because we first failed, and we failed often. And I credit, obviously, um, I credit my faith, number one, but beyond that, I credit my experience as a baseball player at the collegiate level as failing often. It has helped me in business, you know, more than I can describe. Like uh, you know, because that's what business is. That's what playing an infinite game with your business is, is it is a a reality that you're going to fail. And Derek Jeter had an incredible commencement speech in the last couple of years, and he talked about failure. And um if you don't know who Derek Jeter is, look him up. That's I'm sorry that you don't know who Derek Jeter is, but he's one, you know, I'm clutching my pearls on that one. I'm just saying there's somebody out there that doesn't know who Derek Jeter is. Look him up. It's really important that you look him up. Hall of Fame shortstop for the Yankees.
SPEAKER_02Um there's a really great um documentary on him on Netflix.
SPEAKER_03The captain.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03ESPN. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01One of my favorite documentaries. I think I've watched it four times.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I mean, so he talks about failure, right? Like failure in business is going to happen. Just like that's why I think baseball softball has been is such a great foundation.
SPEAKER_02Emma, one of the things that um I have heard Coach McBall's uh head coach there at KU say is um being, is it being being where your feet are?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We talk about that a lot.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So um, so let's talk about that.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Um, this actually came in from our pitching coach, uh, Coach H Laura Heberling. She she came in my sophomore year and um started using that term, be where your feet are. And then Mick Falls and kind of Coach Justin, we all just started saying it. Um and it it basically just means it means to be present, but I feel like saying where be where your feet are is to me more of an intentional way of saying, hey, let's be present. Um we kind of use it a lot in games or at practice, like, hey, we're not gonna focus on this game because we're here right now. Um we might be playing a doubleheader and or this past weekend we were at Arkansas and we had a really great weekend, went four in one, but like we had we had some games that we had to take care of before we got to Arkansas. And it's really easy to get real amped up to play Arkansas. I mean, they're number eight in the country, you're excited to play them. But there are teams that we played before that we were like, we have got to come away with these wins. And we were saying that a lot, like, hey, be where your feet are right here, right now. We got to focus on Boise State before we can focus on Arkansas. Um, and if we're here in Lawrence practicing, it's like, hey, we got to focus on us, we got to be where our feet are before we start thinking about the road trip we're taking this weekend. Um I use it honestly a lot, just like in life, like being where your feet are. It's me and dad have talked about it a lot this year. I it's really easy, like as a senior, when you have fun plans afterwards to get excited about those things because it's something that, I mean, in previous years, the next years just look the same because you're playing softball again. Um, but it's different this year because I know that I'm gonna graduate, um, which is crazy. And so that's kind of been something that we've talked about a lot um as seniors, as a senior class. We've constantly just been telling each other, like, hey, focus on being where your feet are. We can focus on May when May comes. But right now it's March. So let's focus on March.
SPEAKER_02We are focused on March right now, but Emma, tell us a little bit about what May and Beyond looks like for you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, I am in, so I'll start in August. I'm going to something called the Grace Fellows Program, um, which is a two-year residency um thing for a church and collegation. I'll be working in ministry, um, specifically um college student ministry. Um, I kind of long story short, went on a summer trip to Bangkok, Thailand, and kind of just God just revealed ministry to me. I had no idea what I want to do after graduation. Um, and I kind of was like, I guess I'll move back to Texas. I don't know what I'm gonna do, but we'll figure it out. And then um, yeah, last summer I was sitting in a coffee shop in Thailand and kind of was just like, I think I want to go into ministry. Um, so I'll be working with college students and international students, um, just bringing them into the church and college station.
SPEAKER_02During your internship this semester with us at Integra, what have you learned about the insurance business, about uh the crossover from being an athlete and being in the independent insurance space?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, so I'm actually my degree is in sport management. So I um I chose to do that route because I was like, I just want to focus on softball. I don't need school to be super crazy myself four years. So um I for my degree had to take an internship and um kind of worked out perfectly because Tanya has already had already done some, you'd already done some NIL stuff with our team. And so my internship was a lot focused on, has been a lot focused on that. And I've kind of been blown away. Dad's kind of already mentioned it a lot, this podcast of the parallel between just college athletics and independent agency. Um, he talks, I don't know if you talk a lot about it like on the podcast, but he's talked a lot about it to me of how, you know, as an independent agency, like you have to build your brand. Um, and it's really funny because the NIL world and honestly, I would say college athletics in general, we're constantly being told, like, you are your own brand. Um, everything you do, people are looking at you. You can choose what your brand is gonna be because it's your brand. Um, yeah, I've learned just so much about, I guess I didn't realize how close they were, like the the different little um snippets that we can talk about, and even like things that you said today, dad. I'm like, yeah, that just makes so much sense. Um there's just such a parallel between, I guess we could specifically say softball and baseball and independent agencies, but um kind of what I've just been looking at and researching kind of just athletics in general, of um being able to kind of build your own brand and have access to it. Um yeah, kind of runs very similar to owning your own insurance agency. And so, I mean, I would I don't know if you're an athlete listening to this and you have no idea what you want to do, independent agency is not a bad, not a bad outcome because it's very similar to owning your own brand in the NIL and you get control, you get um your schedule. I don't know. I just think it's a very good route for college athletes to take after they graduate if it's something they want to do.
SPEAKER_02If you're a former athlete, um, we would love to talk to you. Reach out to us, um, go topartner network.com, and we would love to talk with you and share our story even more and uh maybe partner together to to help you earn that next win, right? So, Emma, another phrase that I've heard um hanging around you guys over the last few years is being gritty.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What of what I listen, yes, yeah. So this is awesome.
SPEAKER_02We even have strips that say gritty. That's impossible. Um, so tell me what that means to you. What if what is being a gritty player?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I think it's doing absolutely everything you can for your team to to find a way to win. Um I think I have a visual of being gritty. Um, I don't know if everyone would say this, but like I think like, okay, who's the dirtiest player? Like who what uniform is the dirtiest right now? Um, to me, I think that is gritty. That means that you didn't care what happened, you didn't care what it looked like, but you were gonna do everything you could for your team. Um, I think it looks like we talk a lot, we also talk a lot about with that, um, like finding a way to win, no matter what that looks like. And instead of using the term of like, let's find, let's find a way to win and not let's find a way not to lose, and I think these are two very different ways you can say that. Finding a way to win to me is gritty. Um I mean, I think it looks like kind of what we've been talking about doing anything you can to get that run across in the bottom of the sixth, bottom of the seventh, um on defense, not letting a ball get past you no matter what that looks like. Um yeah, I think it just means being a tough out and not caring what that looks like. Um it's a but it's a mental thing. I mean, it's yeah, it's physical, but like being gritty starts mentally. Um it's it starts with knowing that you're gonna fail. And when you're in a slump, being like, okay, I don't care. Um, we're gonna get out of this eventually. I mean, I think that's also gritty, not letting the negative self-talk get into your head, like just completely um knowing that you're gonna get out of it, knowing that um you're gonna fail, and actually thinking, okay, failure sometimes is good because I learned from it. Um, and being okay with that. But being like, okay, well, the next time I have this situation, what am I gonna do differently so I don't fail? Um I think it can be used in a lot of different ways, but it's kind of a lot. But I think that's kind of what gritty means. Shane, what does gritty look like in the insurance world?
SPEAKER_03Man, uh showing up every day, uh, I think that's gritty. I think that getting up and going to work when you don't have anyone telling you to get up and go to work as a business owner, as an independent agency owner, is a big deal because um, you know, that's one of the things that that I I hear from agents that come out of, say, uh a corporate sales job or uh some other environment where exclusive agency environment where maybe they had they were a little more managed. Um and I think grittiness in in in the business environment is you know, hey, you know, you may not feel like doing it today. You you may not feel like you know getting up and and and grinding, and you have to, and you just have to get up and do it. Now there's a reward coming for that, just like on the ball field, being gritty has all kinds of rewards, right? There's success, there's uh team success, individual success, and so forth. But um I think that's been a theme here lately. Um we we've talked about it on the podcast, you know, just showing up is is really, really important. Um really, really important to continue to show up every day. Uh I said it earlier to not get bored with the mundane, not getting bored with doing the things that you've got to do over and over and over again, right? And so I think that's that's another part of being gritty. Um and just kind of there's a thing out there, uh, it was in the book Good to Great, um uh that can go a lot further, uh, that we don't have time for today, but it's called the Stockdale Paradox. Um and it's basically confronting the brutal facts, like not living in this dream world, but confronting the brutal facts about what you have. Like, you know, I'll use Emma, and we've talked about this before. And if you go to a uh a Jayhawk game and you see the girls line up on the on the on the line for the uh national anthem, you'll see what I'm talking about. Um, Big 12 athletes are athletic monsters. Like they are physical specimens, and I don't care what sport you're talking about. Like, and Emma has her dad's jeans, so Emma's not five foot ten or six foot tall, like so many of your other players. She's actually taller, she must get it from her mom's side because she's actually five foot six, right? Which is making her one of the smaller statures, right? And so, you know, Emma has a lot of surprise power in that five foot six frame. And so I think just this this confront the brutal facts as part of who you are and own it, right? Like, I think that's an important thing in the independent agency channel as well. Like, if you're a really good personalized agent, own it. Be the best personalized agent in your state, the country, whatever, right? Instead of like chasing someone else's dream. Stop chasing other people's dream and confront the brutal facts about what you have, who you are, and own your own dream. Like, I think that is being gritty when you get down to it.
SPEAKER_02Emma, um, what if I know that you're an avid reader like your dad is. Um, if you could suggest a book for me to read right now, what would you suggest?
SPEAKER_01Um, I'm not finished with that, but a book that I'm reading right now is called Relentless by Tim Grover. And um it's a guy that my heading coach is a really big reader, like reads a lot of books. And so um this is a book that he suggested, suggested. And this is uh Tim Grover is a I guess you would say like a coach or a mentor for um he was one for Kobe Bryant, all of like the the really good NBA players, um LeBron, um Dwayne Wade, all of them. And he it's just a book on relentless, being relentless, and what that looks like. Um, and it's really good. I'm like halfway through it right now. Um, it's all about mindset and just what being relentless looks like, and a lot of it is things that we've talked about today. Um, one of the things that I was thinking about when you were talking, dad, of doing the mundane things. Um, there's a quote in the book from Kobe Bryant, actually, and he says, like, why do you think I'm the greatest, I'm one of the greatest players in the country? It's because I do the basic things over and over again. I got really good at the basic things. And so I think that's something that works in any aspect of life, whatever you're doing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, again, the parallel between the sport, you know, of baseball and softball and um and the independent agency system owning a business. Like we talk a lot, and Emma had a uh, she's had travel ball coaches through the years. We've talked about it. She's had college coaches. Do the little things. Like, you know, mundane, yes. A lot of the little things are mundane. Like they just they don't get the limelight, they don't get the viral. You know, uh social media, you know, glory, so to speak. But you gotta do the little things in a ball game. You gotta get the bunt down, right? You gotta move the runner. You gotta, you know, runner on third with less than two outs, gotta get them in somehow, somehow. Can't leave that run on the board. And so little things in in the agency business, like you gotta get back with people, like call people back. It's amazing how much business you will get just by getting back to people in a timely manner, just that simple, right? And um, you know, I I don't advocate working on Sundays at all, uh, but it's so funny driving back from uh little from Fayetteville, uh, where the Jayhawks were. Uh, I get a message on Teens message from one of our retail uh sales executives who here in East Texas, and um she had been at a ironically travel ball tournament with her son, and she was basically saying, just made a sale on Sunday. And uh, you know, it was I was like, You're not supposed to be working. And she goes, I know I'm not supposed to be working, but the money was there, and I had and the sale was there to be made, so I made it, and I'm like, Congrats, good job. Like that just you know, doing the little things, being responsive to people, huge. And in a day where we're losing authenticity, where people aren't calling people back in a timely manner, uh it it's huge. It's huge to just keep showing up and getting back with people.
SPEAKER_02I've had so many coaches over the years that have different styles. And um I I remember I had one coach that was all about pressure, and um I was very successful with him, but didn't enjoy it as much as coaches that are about presence and have had great success with with both with both ideas. But to me, the pressure is that you gotta go out, you gotta swing, you gotta make the big plays, where presence is more the idea of you know, no, knowing where your feet are and um keep going and being there, right? So what is your thought, Emma, on the idea of pressure versus presence?
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I think sometimes as a college athlete, it's really easy to get wrapped up in like I gotta do this, or um and you're gonna feel the pressure, like you can't you can't wish the pressure to go away. Like when we're when we're playing in a big game at a big stadium under the lights and they've got bases loaded, um, and you're like, the ball needs to come to me so I can get this out, like that pressure's not gonna go away. Um, but I think what's really cool in those moments is like I've had moments like that, and maybe a timeout gets called. I specifically remember um like my sophomore year playing at OSU, it was I think a Saturday game, maybe even a Friday night game, and um so many people there, and a timeout got called like by the OSU people, and I was just like, oh my gosh, this is so cool! Like, this is the coolest environment. Like, I'm getting to do this. And um, we there's a guy that has been talking to a lot of um just us as captains on the team um that our heading coach has brought in, and he talks about like being present over feeling the pressure. Um and he's really good at being like, you're living in your dream. Like sometimes y'all just need to look around and be like your division one athlete plenty penny playing at a power four school for a Big 12 school. Like that's really cool. Um, and like I think it's it's really easy to kind of be sappy about it, but it's true, like you're living out your 12-year-old dream. Like there are little girls watching you. They they could care less what happens. Like, they don't care if you make an error, they don't care if you strike out, like they still want your autograph at the end of the game. Um, and I think that is something that really helps you stay present. Um, is like just sometimes looking around when you're playing and being like, oh my gosh, like my dream has come true. Like I'm getting, I'm getting to play this game. Um that that really helps take away the pressure because then you're just kind of like, hey, whatever happens is gonna happen. Um, you've made the play a thousand times, so just go and do it. Kind of helps you embrace the pressure um instead of trying to run away from it.
SPEAKER_02I've been so blessed to to see you play uh a few times there at KU. And I will say one of the coolest moments for me was I'm watching the game, I kind of glanced over to the right, and there was a little girl there who had Tatum on the back of her jersey with with your number 20. And I'm like, that is so that's amazing. Like, it was amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like that that was really cool for me because I was like, I wasn't even playing that game. Like it wasn't like I was like the starting like second baseman or shortstop that game. Like it was, I think that's when I was like, it doesn't matter. Like what you do, these girls don't care. They just want to see you have fun. Um, and they just want to get your autograph at the end of the game. Like, that's the coolest thing to them.
SPEAKER_03So and they're dreaming of being where you are, right? That's back to your dream analogy, like they're dreaming, just like when you were 10 or 11 or 12, and you were watching girls and you were going to a game, you know, for us it probably would have been an Aggie game because your mom would have drugged us there, right? Yes, and so um, you know, uh and so it's like you, but you you now are in that and you see that that was those moments seeing those little girls wear your jersey. Um, you know, because for us, it's like, you know, we're in Texas, you're in uh playing at the University of Kansas. Um, you know, there it's no different in any area, right? Like there's Florida girls dreaming of being a gator or a seminole or whatever, uh, you know, and and and it happens in Texas with all kinds of different programs. And there's girls in Kansas and Missouri. Um, hate to bring Mizzou into this conversation for you here, Emma. You've learned about that rivalry pretty good. Um the heated rivalry of the Jayhawks and the Tigers. Um But there's girls in in Kansas and Missouri who are dreaming of being Jayhawks or dreaming of being uh Missouri Tigers. And so, you know, it everywhere around this country, you just have that reality, and then you get caught up. It's so easy, so easy to get caught up in that pressure and caught up in how hard it is, and then you turn around and you look at that 10-year-old little girl wearing your jersey, and you're like, okay, thank you, God, for that reminder, right? Yeah, because that then you just realize how big of a blessing it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. From an insurance agency owner perspective, sometimes we forget how incredible we have it. You know, Shane always says that the independent um agency world is the greatest business out there, and that the worst of us retain 80% of our business. That that in itself is incredible from a from a business perspective. And sometimes we forget how great it is, and that you can travel and go to your kids' ball games or their dance competitions, or their you know, their their music competitions, or whatever your your children do, you can spend time and celebrate with your spouse. There are so many things being in the agency world give you if you allow it. And from the perspective of a producer in the agency world, you're making a great living. You're making an absolutely great living. And uh the opportunities, opportunities are out there to own your agency, to to continue to create a lifestyle for yourself if you're willing to take a chance, right?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's uh it's to me, it's mind-blowing how how awesome of an opportunity it is. And people are gonna say, you know, oh, Shane, you're biased. Yeah, I kind of am, but I'm also living proof and and I've experienced it personally, like the things that we were doing uh just with our girls when they were little, um with when they got into middle school and then high school, and of course now with Emma in college, the ability to chase them around, um, the ability to not miss games, my dad was a big proponent of that. And I think it's because in uh the boomer generation, in you know, growing up as an 80s kid, um, you know, you just you just didn't have the flexibility back in in that day and time. And even before uh the pandemic, we were doing post-pandemic remote work stuff. Like we were doing things that allowed us to see things. Like, I mean, I don't know. Sometimes I worried that it was embarrassing uh Emma's older sister Hannah or Emma uh when we would show up at this random middle school basketball tournament in the middle of the day on a Thursday, you know, at 10 a.m. And we would be like one of the only sets of parents in the stands. And it would be like both of us, it would be Julie, my wife, and I, both. And so um it was like I'm sure it's like, and I'm looking around, and one time I realized it's like nobody else is here. My gosh, we're the only parents here. And and Julie had to remind me like, well, most people don't have the flexibility that we have, like most people are working, you know, et cetera, and have jobs, and I'm like, well, we have jobs too, and she's like, we do, but the independent insurance agency business is, in my opinion, the best business on the planet, and so it has given given us so much more than um uh a better than average living, right? It's giving us so much more than financial um, you know, stability, it's given us flexibility, and you are going to have a really hard time replacing the memories that you never got to create. And memory creation has an expiration limit. I thought about that um recently, and I kind of thought about that phrase like you know, if you don't create those memories as you go, eventually the opportunities to create those memories expire. And so um to me, that's worth everything. I mean, that's the timeless, the priceless uh reality of the independent agency business. And um, I know that gets pretty, you know, dramatic. You know, like sometimes I get called, you know, drama dad. Like, don't be dramatic, dad. Oh my gosh, dad, you're so dramatic. This is I can't over-emphasize this enough. The flexibility of owning, building, growing, running an independent insurance agency is incredible.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm sorry, I can't let this go. Mr. Evan Teal, Emma, when do you have to tell him not to be so dramatic? Because I can't ever in the eight years that I have been with Integra can ever think of using the word dramatic about Shane Tatum.
SPEAKER_01So I need this insight. Oh goodness. I mean, he is a girl dad, so he kind of gives it best. Like, like there will be, I don't think I have a specific story, but like there will be times where I'm just like, you only do that because you're a girl dad. Like you are just submerged in girls. And Hannah and I can both be dramatic. And so um, I don't have an exact story. Maybe I don't know. Sometimes sometimes the dad jokes are dramatic because he's just being a dad, but he's also the only answer I have to that is that he's a girl dad, and he's kind of the ultimate girl dad. I don't really know if people know that about him because I know he has his usually his business face on or work. We we call it uh what do we call it, dad? Your your dad tone.
SPEAKER_03Dad tone, yes, my dad voice.
SPEAKER_01Or just gosh, you gave you gave them your dad tone, and he's like, Well, I'm working. Um, because we don't always get the dad tone, we get the especially as we've gotten older, we get the fun, um the fun chain. And so he is the ultimate girl dad. So I think he's dramatic because I mean he kind of has to be sometimes if he wants to fit in with the girls.
SPEAKER_02So well, maybe maybe that's it, because that is one of the interesting things about what Shane has built at Integra. So many, uh, or I would say most um of the insurance world, the executives are men, and uh women are still fighting that uh around around the country. And Shane has put together an executive leadership team that is primarily women, and maybe that comes from being a girl dad, but he has built a team based on what he sees as women um building the business, helping the business be successful. And he sees something really special in what women bring to the world of business and the and the world of insurance. Sure.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I don't know what to say about that, other than, you know, God thought it was funny, so he would give him give me two girls, and I've been blessed beyond um beyond comprehension, you know. So I I can't imagine. No, we had nephews. Well, we had we have three nephews. Um uh they're all grown and married, and uh, we call them the Bush Boys because uh uh that's Julie's maiden name, and her brother's boys, and um, yeah, we we got to watch them and go to their ball games and do things when those boys would come over to our house, it was like they're gonna destroy everything in this house. Like they were we were so not prepared for uh the boys to be in the house. And so uh we I don't know, our girls spoiled us. Um they spoiled us and and made it easy.
SPEAKER_02Well, Emma, um, thank you so much for joining us today. Uh we have we have loved getting to to spend this time with you, learning more about you, your goals, your dreams, and also what you've learned about the the independent agency world. Um, I'm loving getting to spend this semester with you. Uh the things that you're creating for us are are absolutely amazing. So I want to let you leave us with some um just some thoughts about the insurance world. Um you were promoting owning an independent agency to another college athlete. What would you tell them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, I think I would go back to kind of what I was saying earlier. Um you, I mean, when you graduate college, you're young. Um, I'm not saying that maybe it's something you start when you're 22. I think Tanya, me and you have talked about this a little bit, like getting a little bit of experience under your belt. Um, but I think having your own independent agency is from what I've learned kind of life-changing and kind of just, I mean, dad said it before, but I truly do believe like it's it's one of the best careers to have. Um, and I'm gonna promote this even more, even though dad, you kind of just went on a tangent about it. I didn't really like understand how awesome a career like this was until I got to college and really started learning, wow, my parents don't miss a game. Like, we're traveling the country. And I don't think I realized that in high school because we were a game was maybe a max two hours away. Um, but I really would promote that. Like, my parents don't miss games, they don't miss tournaments, and I didn't realize how awesome that was until I got to college and learned that I was like one of the only people who had parents at every single game, every single weekend. Um, and so yeah, if you're interested in it, um if there's any bit of you that's interested in having your own independent agency, um, I say go for it. At least just learn more about it because it's a pretty good, pretty good job to have, especially with the flexibility of um getting to chase your kids around or whatever that looks like for you. So Emma, do you have a favorite quote that you want to share with us? Um, yeah, this is actually uh a Bible verse. It's um 1 Timothy um 2.7, and it says, For God does not give us a spirit of fear and timidity, but a spirit of power, love, and self-discipline.
SPEAKER_02I am gonna leave us today with this quote from Coach Jennifer McFalls, who is the coach there at University of Kansas and an Olympic gold medal winner. Championship programs are built on consistency. It's not about one big swing, it's about winning the next pitch.
SPEAKER_03Attitudes of choice make a great one.
SPEAKER_00Bye, y'all. At the Integra Partner Network, we understand that carrier access is the key to your agency's success. That's why Integra offers direct access to top-rated personal and commercial carriers, ensuring your agency thrives in today's challenging market. And with our comprehensive resources, profit sharing, and bonus opportunities, technology and peer support, all where you retain 100% of your book with no penalties to exit. Integra is ready to empower you and your agency to find sustained growth. Find your way to Integra. Visit Integra Partner Network.com today. That's integrapartner network.com.
